Alistair Overeem Interview: Verhoeven, Hall Of Fame

I recently spoke with combat sports legend Alistair Overeem. The Reem is working on a long-awaited boxing match with Rico Verhoeven, but we also talked about his inexplicable absence from the UFC Hall of Fame. Here is a look at the entire interview along with the full Q&A. Let's talk MMA.

Key Facts at a Glance

Is The Rico Verhoeven Fight Actually Happening?

Brian Mazique: Your career has spanned so much time and has crossed over with so many different combat sports people from different disciplines. It's almost tough to even decide where we're going to start. But I want to start with something more recent. I believe that there's been some talk about a two-fight deal with you and Rico Verhoeven in both boxing and MMA. What about that, especially at this stage of your career where you've already done so much, really intrigues you?

Alistair Overeem: Well, and even there was even like a little thought process of maybe doing him three fights, the MMA, even though I would not recommend Rico. If you listen to this, I wouldn't recommend you do that. Yeah, it's the one fight that never happened. And audience is asking about it. I mean, he's the other, I would say breakthrough fighter that Netherlands has produced. I think I was the first of our generation, right? But by generation, I would say it's me and then later on Rico. And they were scheduled to fight twice, didn't materialize. And I think the stars are aligning and it could materialize once yet again.

Brian Mazique: I understand why you said you would advise against Rico getting into MMA, because that might end up in some sort of guillotine or dark choke. But I think it still would be interesting. It's a shorter walk, so to speak, from kickboxing to boxing than it is to MMA.

Alistair Overeem: Crawling and then walking. Don't think you can run straight away and let alone fly, right?

What Did Overeem Think Of Verhoeven Vs. Usyk?

Brian Mazique: What did you think about the Verhoeven against Usyk fight?

Alistair Overeem: I thought it was an interesting matchup at first. I thought there was a great and only choice they could make on his end because, of course, he can't really go into MMA. He was talking about it, but I cannot take that serious. Kickboxing, unfortunately for him and many other fans, is a little bit finished all over the world. So then what else for him to do? He's already boxing for 15 years with the Furys. Very logical move.

Alistair Overeem: And then for him to be able to instantly fight Usyk, the Undisputed Number One, is beautiful. It's beautifully done by their team. When we're talking about the fight, I thought he fought a good fight. I expected him to fight. I was actually commentating in that fight, so I was already letting everybody know he's going to come to win. People weren't really taking it serious.

Alistair Overeem: But again, Peter Fury, boxing legendary coach, he's already with them for 15 years. They know what he can do. And they've had all this time to generate some sort of a surprise. And then again, it's like a big guy, right? 6'6", something, got the weight on his hands. So it was kind of like all geared up for a big surprise, which he was. But then, yeah, fate struck. Got clipped in early, only got clipped, but then later on again.

Brian Mazique: Did they wave it off early? There's no standing eight counts, so you could kind of go that direction.

Alistair Overeem: Maybe they did get waved off early. I don't know.

Would He Ever Fight Bare Knuckle?

Brian Mazique: There's something I want to ask you. Your name came up. I was recently at a bare-knuckle boxing event in Los Angeles, and your name came up as a possibility. Would you be interested in that? You've done just about every combat sport there is to even think about. Is there an offer? Is there a check they could write that would get you interested?

Alistair Overeem: Well, let's put it as this. We have a idea slash suggestion, which is going to be great. I don't know if I could even talk about it here. I think I shouldn't, so I'm not going to. We're talking to the person who's designated for that, and it's like a slow process, right? Boxing is a little different than the kickboxing world. So, yeah, we have a strategy. We're executing that strategy. Patience is important. The older I get, the more I realize how important is patience. Stay respectful. Stay polite. All facets, which are not a problem to me.

Brian Mazique: When you say boxing, so specifically are you talking about gloved boxing or bare knuckle?

Alistair Overeem: Gloved. I'm not a big fan of the bare knuckle because blood, I don't like that. It doesn't look like a sport to me. Respect for those guys, right, but also it's just a little bit unfortunate because when I think of bare knuckle, I think of fighters who are kind of have to fight because they don't have anything else to do. And then let alone the injuries that come from that because that's just all concussion and brain damage and this and that. Another big interest of mine is the longevity angle. Yeah, you're not going to do longevity when you're fighting bare knuckle. That's the opposite.

Alistair Overeem: And I get it because boxing with big gloves is also tough, but at least it's an Olympic sport. There's history tied to it. There's a lot of techniques in there, which I think if you're doing bare knuckle, because it's usually MMA fighters, right, that are going into bare knuckle.

Brian Mazique: A lot of boxing guys too.

Alistair Overeem: Yeah, and it's kind of unfortunate, right, because they're doing it because of money issues. To me, it's a little bit sad.

Why Boxing, And Why Now?

Alistair Overeem: I'm very motivated for the boxing world. You know, during the K1 days and then UFC, I never really focused on the boxing world. I didn't really even see it. And it was a great world, right? It's just a little bit different, and I never saw myself doing it.

Alistair Overeem: When I was first time in Japan, I never saw myself as a kickboxer too, as a K1 fighter, let alone champion. I became champion in 2010. So it's funny how life kind of spins, how life turns, how your desires change.

Alistair Overeem: I see the boxers. It's a very tough sport. It's all inchwork, right? There's a lot of technical little details in there, which if you look quickly, which I previously did, you're not going to see that. Now I'm seeing it. He's slipping. He's ducking. He's doing this. He's doing that. And, yeah, I just love it. Became a fan, which, you know, in my opinion, you need to be a fan of whatever you're doing because you need to kind of be infatuated with it, right?

Alistair Overeem: So how I see it is I did MMA. We did great. I did K1, K1 champion. So there's, like, in total six belts, I think four promotions or something. And then adding this boxing layer on top, which is, in my opinion, the hardest. You know, it's hitting. You're wearing shoes. These guys hit the hardest. It's a beautiful completion. That's how it feels to me. Of course, this will be final. We're not going to keep on going forever.

Brian Mazique: Are there specific names that you would be targeting? Or is it, hey, I'm trying to kind of mimic what George Foreman did and go after a world title and break a record for the oldest guy to win a world title?

Alistair Overeem: Well, we have actually very specific a name in mind, and that is basically Rico Verhoeven, who just fought Usyk. And why? Because we were slated to fight twice on two occasions. It did not materialize. One was injury. The other one was actually both were injuries. And then after that, my body just didn't want to do it anymore, which kind of prompted me to dive into the longevity and kind of heal myself through that. It kind of took a little too, but I feel younger now. I'm all totally energized. And to me, the Rico fight seems logical.

What Does He Remember About The Brock Lesnar Fight?

Brian Mazique: I have a question about your UFC career. If you look at some of the names, and even before the UFC, when we go back to Strikeforce, you're looking at Fabricio Werdum, Brock Lesnar, Bigfoot Silva, Travis Browne, Frank Mir, Stefan Struve, Junior dos Santos, Andrei Arlovski, Stipe Miocic, Francis Ngannou, Curtis Blaydes, Alexander Volkov, Alexey Oleynik, Jairzinho Rozenstruik. Just about anybody who was anybody as a heavyweight, you faced. Who was the person that you felt like, this is easier than I thought? And who do you think is your best performance?

Alistair Overeem: I mean, you know, I think when somebody has a name, former UFC champion, I think I beat like six of them. That always brought something extra to it. I mean, were they easy to beat? I don't know. It's actually a good question. I think the Brock fight kind of was easier than it kind of, you know, first round, about four and a half minutes it was. A lot of stuff was happening in the background though, which of course, obviously fans, people don't know, but yeah.

Brian Mazique: What was happening in the background?

Alistair Overeem: Just like a lot. I just left the team, Golden Glory, and there was like a lawsuit and a lot of threats and difficulties. And, you know, you're dealing with that in the background and then you're moving and then, yeah.

Brian Mazique: Which other fighter was easier?

Alistair Overeem: You know, all the fights you win is basically easy, but training camp is hard, right? It all happens in the training camp. So training camp has to kind of be perfect. No mistakes. You generate a form that will beat the opponent. And if training camp is not really easy and not really ideal, then there could be some mistakes. I mean, sometimes training camp totally sucks, right? You're just not getting in the flow. And then that will also reflect in your results.

Alistair Overeem: It was always a search for the ingredients of a great training camp. And then I found that I kind of was pretty good at it, putting those ingredients together, you know, like a cook. The ingredients of the dish. And then, you know, what is that? Like 80 to 85% win ratio. I kind of been involved in putting my training camps together since, I would say 2007. I kind of stepped up as a main coach role-ish. I kind of did it myself because it was just lacking.

Who Surprised Him The Most In His Career?

Brian Mazique: Who surprised you the most of any person that you fought in Strikeforce or UFC where you were like, whoa, I trained for this guy, I prepared for this guy, but when I got in, this was a little different?

Alistair Overeem: Yeah, so I think that it would have been Werdum, Fabricio Werdum. I fought him three times. So once in Pride, a long time ago, 2006. Once in Strikeforce, 2011. And then again in UFC. And you would easily underestimate him. Because he's kind of like, he's not really good striking. And okay, he's got some grappling. Somehow, we never really grappled that much. Also, it was like mainly striking. But he outstruck me actually in the second fight. And then I out-grappled him. So it was like a very weird fight. But he was like clever, intelligent. I actually have a lot of respect for him.

Alistair Overeem: Highly intelligent. Strong will to win. Yeah, I had my hands full on him. All three fights. But in the end, I won two, lost the first. And then all three were defining moments, right? Back in Pride, it was a defining moment. Big audience. And it was the Openweight Grand Prix. Which was kind of like the breakthrough moment there. Before, nobody really took him serious. But then after they took him serious, then he beat Fedor. Then I fought him. That was like a huge breakthrough moment for him.

Why Isn't Overeem In The UFC Hall Of Fame?

Brian Mazique: When you look over your career, everybody you faced and people that you beat, I think it might be shocking to some people that you're not in the UFC Hall of Fame. Why do you think that is? And what are your thoughts about that?

Alistair Overeem: Well, I think that the UFC Hall of Fame all has to do with, if you are on Dana White's favorite list, right? If he likes you, then you're on there. And if he doesn't like you, you're not going to be on there. Well, in my case, I'm not on there. So I guess he doesn't like me.

Alistair Overeem: I almost did 10 years in UFC. And then I got like fired like, I don't know, three months before doing exactly 10 years. And after a loss. And the funny thing was, I also got offered, yeah, we think we are like paying you not enough. So we want to reduce your pay. I'm like, okay, what do you guys have in mind? Yeah, we want to give you like a pay reduction of 50%. I'm like, no. Why would I do that? No, I'm not going to do that. And then I lost. And then they released me.

Alistair Overeem: Of course, the guy doesn't like you. It's not a mystery. We don't have personal relationship. The guy never, we're not even talking. Which to me is weird. Because I'm like one of the higher paid athletes. You're going to talk. We're going to show some interest.

Alistair Overeem: Okay, and then it comes down to the beginning. So what is the beginning? I signed with the UFC in 2011 with Lorenzo. After the first initial talks broke down between my management and Dana White. So that broke down. Talks were reinitiated between me and Lorenzo. And then we made the deal. And I think, yeah, somehow that rubbed him the wrong way or something. I don't know. Cannot see in the man's mind.

Brian Mazique: I'm a sports purist. I love other sports besides MMA. But it bothers me when somebody is supposed to be in a Hall of Fame and they're not, because to me it messes with the integrity of the whole thing. If you're looking at somebody who, yeah, there's some losses for sure, but if you fight as long as you fought, there's going to be some losses. When you figure that this person has beaten just about everybody there is that was a great heavyweight, and many of the light heavyweights and middleweights across their entire time span, and they're not in the Hall of Fame, it's kind of crazy. Especially when you look at it and say, and I'm not trying to disrespect anybody, but somebody like Donald Cerrone is a Hall of Famer.

Alistair Overeem: Listen, I have fought for a long time. And I've dealt with people that don't like me for a long time. And what can I say? I'm not bothered by it. I just cruise on with my life. I just describe it as you can't be friends with everyone. Ultimately if somebody does me dirty, they always pay the price. And that's not even me. I'm not even doing it. But just by observing. And then after a while, they're going to have their fair share of luck or bad luck.

Alistair Overeem: And to me, it's all good. Of course, everybody would like to be Hall of Famer. I was with them for 10 years. But if it's not yet, it's not up to me. And then I can easily just not be bothered by it. I just continue on my way. And it's all good. It's all love.

Alistair Overeem: It's great that you know your stuff. I think Dana also knows his stuff, but then it's just, yeah. It just comes down to the ego thing.

Alistair Overeem: Who else is in there? Because I think there's also some names in there which totally bring the whole reputation down.

Brian Mazique: What is the monetary benefit to being inducted into the Hall of Fame? In other sports, you do autograph signings, memorabilia, and you get to sign as so-and-so Hall of Famer. And that takes up the value of what you can charge.

Alistair Overeem: To be honest, I wouldn't know because I never really dove into it. I was never really, this is the most I've been talking about the Hall of Fame ever in my life. I mean, it was always there. You could kind of see it. Couldn't touch. But it is what it is.

Is A Francis Ngannou Rematch On The Table?

Brian Mazique: Say you have the fight with Rico and it goes well, and there's still this appetite to see you box even more. Would you have a desire to run it back with Francis Ngannou? That knockout is a historic knockout. It really kind of made Francis Ngannou in a way. Since he's dabbled in boxing, would that be something you'd be interested in doing?

Alistair Overeem: Well, we did not look beyond that, but it could be what we're thinking. It could be a couple of fights and then yes, it could be also Francis, but we are not looking at him in particular.

Brian Mazique: What do you think about Jake Paul's and Nakisa Bidarian's MVP promotion? I've heard there's a chance there could be a merger with MVP and the PFL. If that happens, I wonder if they'd start doing crossover events where they have boxing and MMA on the same card. Someone you fought before, Junior dos Santos, was on their first MMA card. Does that sound like something you'd be interested in?

Alistair Overeem: Well, I mean, it would just be the team, right? I'm interested in everything and the team is less interested than they're looking at the details, the little letters, and then we go from there.